New Route Profiles (Shortest and Beeline)

That’s the big question. Every route profile adds complexity to the UX as well. Having more choice might not always be better :slight_smile:. Having buttons for options that are rarely used is also not great for users.

For routing issues, we created the beeline mode, which is the most flexible way, but you don’t have any guidance on the beeline route part.

Yes, but if many users reply here in the forum this gives us an idea of what is needed either way.

@t00thl355

I found the problem, Kurviger sees a ferry as a Toll Road which is technically incorrect, ferries are not roads. In my opinion this is a bug.

I don’t think I am going to change your mind so I am not going to keep responding on this issue since I would be wasting your time and mine.

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@t00thl355

There are still problems though like when the ferry time exceeds the drive time then the Quickest Routing Profile takes you overland. In this example I want to take the ferry and not the tunnel.

begin: 54.991964, -1.4498840
End: 52.462642, 4.5843430

And another,

Begin: 50.966686, 1.8498120
End: 51.125166, 1.3310890

Make what you will of it I just see this as flawed.

@boldtrn

I found part of the problem with ferries, Kurviger sees a ferry as a Toll Road which is technically incorrect, ferries are not roads. In my opinion this is a bug. Where / how do I submit a bug report?

Fixing this however will not fix this problem,

There are still problems though like when the ferry time exceeds the drive time then the Quickest Routing Profile takes you overland. In these two examples I want to take the ferry and not the tunnel.

begin: 54.991964, -1.4498840
End: 52.462642, 4.5843430

And another,

Begin: 50.966686, 1.8498120
End: 51.125166, 1.3310890

I understand Beeline is Kurviger’s solution. Make what you will of it I just see this as flawed.

Okay seriously, this needs to be my last post in this thread. I know I keep saying that however I keep finding new information to add. Anyway I want to let us both move on since we are not going to change each others minds.

No hard feelings I hope.

I am just trying to understand your expectations and difficulties you are facing with planing in order to find a possible solutions.

In the above example we are talking about
Start: Newcastle (UK)
End: Haarlem (Netherlands)

Kurviger gave me this route:

This is 803km long ride in 23h 36min

Ferry would take approximately 16h, according to www.directferries.co.uk

Now, is your expectation, that Kurviger should propose to take the ferry from Newcastle to Haarlem instead routing you over roads and tunnels?

IMHO, if I plan a ride, I’d prioritize the roads and let Kurviger plan the road route.
If I want to cross a big chunk of water, I’d first decide where I want to cross, at what times are ferries available and buy the ticket for that crossing. Then I would plan the ride to the ferry and from the ferry using Kurviger.
Normally I would not have such a big crossing every other day, so it should not be a big issue to plan longer ferry crossing outside Kurviger.
For shorter crossings, the beeline would do the job if the App does not take the ferry and you really wish to.

Does this help solve your problem or am I still missing your point?

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Just set a shaping point on the ferry connection and Kurviger takes it:


https://kurv.gr/f3hRq

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Yes, I can workaround the issue.

Yes, I can workaround the issue.

I found part of the problem with ferries, Kurviger sees a ferry as a Toll Road which is technically incorrect, ferries are not roads. In my opinion this is a bug. Where / how do I submit a bug report?

Okay - now we are in the situation “DON’T FEED THE TROLL” - I’m ignoring your user from now on.

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@zaphod_42 … please stay friendly

@SonWon … There is no need to post the same statements over and over again. Duplicate messages do not help.

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Does not work for Oslo-Kiel… :joy: not that I would use it this way, but it’s funny…

My apology to everyone I thought it was overlooked.

It works - sometimes you have to place the shaping point further away from the shore.
see https://kurv.gr/8z652

Ok. Since I do not use ferries on a dauly basis, I would always check all ferry crossings on my route individually. For some longer crossings like that Oslo-Kiel it is not possible to just appear and buy a ticket - you meed to book in advance since the cabin may be mandatory.

Back to the Kurviger app - based on previous posts I would have following questions for the development team:

  1. How does the App differentiate between the ferries that would be considered for the route planning and those that wouldn’t (but can still be enforced by putting an SP on the line in water)? Example: https://kurv.gr/q5NzA
  2. Why does router assume that the ferry would turn back at SP? Example:
    https://kurv.gr/dteW7
  3. Why does the router treat some ferry connections as toll roads? Example: https://kurv.gr/f3hRq

None of these are a high priority questions, as I would still plan my ferries individually, but there is obviously some unexpected behavior in the app here.

Because those are mapped in OSM with toll=yes. Could be an idea to exclude route=ferry from avoidance.

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All ferries I used in Norway are “toll” i.e., I had to pay for them. I guess “free of charge” would be an exception in case of ferries.
If you compare my examples above:

#1 the route is marked as a ferry (but time and distance are inconsistent):

#3 the route does not contain a ferry symbol

Is there a case where a paid Tunnel is shown as “Toll”, but the tunnel symbol is missing? I’d expect both to be reported in the route information (“i”).

Again, all these are for me “corner cases”, not a high priority. Fix/improve when you can.

yes, interesting:
The hurtigruten (first picture) is just mapped with route=ferry, no key / tag for duration - symbol ferry
Newcastle-IJmuiden (second picture) is marked as route= ferry and toll=yes and duration = 15:30 - no symbol ferry


toll: I found some ferries mapped with toll=yes, others with fee=yes. I do not know the difference.


Reroute from shaping point on ferry route back: Perhaps an idea to assume route=ferry as “oneway”, when a point is set on the ferry route. There might be possibilities to swim back, but I would rather enjoy the ferry ride. No idea, if technical feasible.

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Where I live, in Washington State, USA, the ferries are in fact considered roads and carry with them a Washington State Highway designation. Drivers follow a highway (SR-nnn) to the ferry terminal. When on the ferry they are still on SR-nnn and when they get off the ferry on the other side they are still on SR-nnn.

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