App: Waypoint names

[zaphod_42]

Die Benennung der “wichtigen” Wegpunkte in kurviger-pro klappt prima! Sie werden sogar nach dem Export (.kurviger “offline” ) beim Re-Import von kurviger.de übernommen und bleiben in den meisten Fällen auch nach weiterer Bearbeitung der Route erhalten. Siehe https://kurv.gr/xnE6r
Beim Export mit (.gpx “offline”) - den ich nur zur Weitergabe an Mitfahrer benötige - fehlt mir noch etwas. Ich würde gerne auch hier zusätzliche Wegpunkte zur Vereinheitlichung der Strecke einfügen - geht das? DANKE!

Naming the “important” waypoints in kurviger-pro works great! They are even taken over after the export (.kurviger “offline”) when re-importing into kurviger.de and in most cases remain even after further processing of the route. see https://kurv.gr/xnE6r
When exporting with (.gpx “offline”) - which I only need to pass on to fellow riders - I still miss something. I would like to add additional waypoints to unify the route - is that possible? THANK YOU!

Sorry - the link above doesn’t work correctly - just import the attached kurviger-file to see the names of some waypoints. Sharing the route seems to rename all waypoints …
20200415_143431.kurviger (23.9 KB)

[devemux86]

@zaphod_42

When exporting with (.gpx “offline”) - which I only need to pass on to fellow riders - I still miss something. I would like to add additional waypoints to unify the route - is that possible?

That is not possible in GPX (offline) format, it exports the route unmodified.

@zaphod_42

Sorry - the link above doesn’t work correctly - just import the attached kurviger-file to see the names of some waypoints. Sharing the route seems to rename all waypoints

The website will support waypoint names later:

Website: Waypoint names

In my opinion it would really be a great improvement to be able to change the names of the waypoints in my route. It’s OK to have all those “via point xx” by default, but certain waypoint on a route often have a special significance. For example because there’s a restaurant with a planned stop, a parking lot to meet other buddies or a certain location to be visited. It’s sometimes quite confusing to have a good overview over your route without the possibily to have custom names for your waypoin…

[RHoffner]

Hello, thanks for adding the feature Waypoint-Names. It would also be nice to have the Waypoint-Names imported from .gpx files. Currently the waypoint names are exported to gpx but not imported.

[devemux86]

@RHoffner

It would also be nice to have the Waypoint-Names imported from .gpx files. Currently the waypoint names are exported to gpx but not imported.

If wpt elements in GPX file have filled their “name” tag then their names are imported too.

Or do you have some sample GPX that does not work?

[RHoffner]

I simply exported a Route with the Kurviger App as gpx and imported the Route again. Waypoints-Names exist in the exported GPX-File, but when reimporting the Route specific Names are lost. Using 1.13.3 Beta

[devemux86]

@RHoffner

I simply exported a Route with the Kurviger App as gpx and imported the Route again. Waypoints-Names exist in the exported GPX-File, but when reimporting the Route specific Names are lost.

(please post also the export & import dialog details, so we can understand & reproduce)

When export waypoint names, must use Kurviger or GPX (offline) formats.

Probably you select “Route” instead of “Waypoints” when export & import a route?
I can add parsing of names also from the route rtept elements inside the GPX file.

[RHoffner]

Yes i did this as you said. Parsing names from the route rtept<> tags would be nice. Think about importing gpx routes from a different source with existing names. Nice work you did on the current Beta.

[devemux86]

@RHoffner

Parsing names from the route rtept<> tags would be nice.

It will be available in next version.

[rumbrummer]

Hi,
I just played a little bit with the Waypoint Names, I like it, thanks for the implementation.
And I appreciate especially one feature: I use the search function e.g. searching a mountain pass.
After long tap on the search marker and selecting “Add as waypoint” , the name of the mountain pass is copied to waypoint automatically - good job!
Thanks and regards
Markus

[rumbrummer]

Hi,

following a hint from devemux in an other tread I did some tries with the waypoint list and waypoint names:

If I change a via point with a given (and displayed) name to shaping point, the name is not displayed any more but just the text “shaping point”.

Also the “edit name” button is disabled.

Nevertheless the prevously given name is stored (I appreciate that!): If I export a .kurviger file, I can still see the name of the shaping point in it, if I switch back that point to via point, the given name is displayed again - that’s good!

I’d like to use the name information also for shaping points to identify them (e.g. in waypoint list or during planning on the map), because a “talking name” can be given to identify that shaping point, thats easier to handle than keeping numbers in mind.

Therefore I propose:

• display in waypoint list also the given name of shaing points, if available (you can see that it is a shaping point by the icon)
• enable also “edit name” button for shaping points
• display shaping point name also in the bubble on the map after long press on the marker (you can see that it is a shaping point by the marker icon)
• perhaps it would be useful to have different functions dependant on where I tap on a waypoint in the list, example: Tapping on the icon on the left toggles via <-> shaping, tapping on the name opens edit field to change name, tapping on a 3rd column opens context menu, tapping on a 4th column selects waypoint to shift it up/down via arrow buttons below list. Thats just an idea, I can not judge the effort to implement such an interface

Remark: In other functions as navigation etc. the shaping point name should be handled as before ( = no hint, name ignored ?).

Regards

Markus

[devemux86]

@rumbrummer

I’d like to use the name information also for shaping points to identify them

More important is what is common, i.e. the rule for shaping points.
(not how we like them to be)

So how all other routing services handle shaping point names?
Any other have them? Because we should remain compatible.

App: Waypoint types

Garmin uses the “shaping point” term and we can use it for the UI texts: Garmin BaseCamp: Shaping points are any position along a route that will not alert you when you arrive. Shaping points do not contain arrival time or distance between points information. Google Maps: stopover (optional) indicates whether this waypoint is a actual stop on the route (true) or instead only a preference to route through the indicated location (false). Stopovers are true by default. HERE Maps: A waypoint ca…

[rumbrummer]

@devemux86

More important is what is common, i.e. the rule for shaping points.
(not how we like them to be)

Hi,

I agree, of course.

BaseCamp is just a planning tool (for PC or MAC) - so there will be no alerts anywhere, of course, this is dependant on the used Garmin device used to drive the route afterwards.

But I can confirm the rules you mentioned for ShapingPoints for Garmin devices I know: No alert, no arrival time. But the name of ShapingPoints can be displayed / changed (in BasceCamp and on Navi).

This is consistent to the behaviour of my BMW Navigator 5 (Garmin), and probably will be the same for BMW Navigator 6, Garmin Zumo 590/595 and other Garmin Devices which can distinguish between ViaPoints and ShapingPoints.

There are two further important differences between ViaPoints and ShapingPoints @ Garmin devices:

• Starting a route you can choose a ViaPoint where to enter the route (ShapngPoints not shown in selection list)
• ViaPoints have to be passed during Navigation, in case of a detour the device tries to lead you back to the ViaPoint you did not reach - in that case you have to skip that ViaPoint manually
• the “skip waypoint” function just skips the next ViaPoint on the route, including all ShapingPoints before thatViapoint.
  For BMW N5: result of skip: next point in route will be 1st point after skipped ViaPoint (can be a ShapingPoint or a ViaPoint).

Regards

Markus

[devemux86]

Thanks for the details, those are about Garmin universe.

We should examine also how shaping points are handled in Google Maps, HERE WeGo, etc.
(and used in their popular navigators)

Do they use / need shaping point names?

[WalterG]

In another topic was asked to give user-defined names to shaping points and additional info to shaping points. Out of the response is following quote:

@devemux86

Shaping points are not via points, so they don’t have turn instructions, names, distance, time, etc.

(just like all other popular routers Google Maps, HERE WeGo already work)

Regarding my statement I was asked to publish this in an appropriate topic. Following my statement to names and additional info of shaping points:

That was my opinion for a long time, too.

But in the last weeks I changed my mind a little bit. All other popular routers don’t use names for shaping points. But perhaps for Kurviger it could be an improvement, previously when mainly working with website and app.

Comparison of some features for Waypoints Via Point and Shaping Point:

Waypoint:	Via Point (VP)	Shaping Point (Kurviger) (SP)	Shaping Point (popular)
Routing Preference:	same as SP	same as VP	?
Visible Waypoint Number:	Yes	Yes	no (or seldom)
In Waypoint list:	Yes	Yes	no (or seldom)
Symbol in Route:	Numbered Flag	Numbered Circle (Small Flag)	not defined
(Turn) Instructions:	Yes	No	?
Default Name:	No. + Viapoint	No. + Shapingpoint	?
Nameable:	Yes	(No) New: Optional	No
Info Distance:	Yes	(No) New: Optional	No
Info Time:	Yes	(No) New: Optional	No

That’s a rough overview and comparison. Perhaps some important things are not mentioned.
Why this table? To explain my mindchange.
At some features of the shaping points there are currently little differences between Kurviger and popular routers. And this is an advantage for Kurviger! And I like what you made! THANK YOU very much!
And however shaping points are for a certain route segment they don’t need exact coordinates but to refer to the route segment coordinates are taken.
Some users want optional names and data of distance and/or time for the setted shaping points. I couldn’t understand that for a certain time. For some reasons this seems senseless. But they have reasons to want this. However different to popular routers these can be a gain for Kurviger and the users.
When adding these features the currently advantages of the shaping points are not lost.

In the meantime I would be happy if these wishes could be fulfilled.

[devemux86]

Implemented in Kurviger 1.13.13.

[WalterG]

@devemux86

Implemented in Kurviger 1.13.13

To avoid misunderstandings: Not all is implemented in 1.13.13 and 1.13.14. See table for comparison.

Comparison of some features for Waypoints Via Point (VP) and Shaping Point (SP) in App and Website:
(Yes means available, No means not available, ? means I don’t know, haven’t beta 1.13.15)

Waypoint:	Via Point (VP)	SP (1.13.13)	SP (1.13.15)	SP (1.13.?)	SP (Web)
Routing Preference:	same as SP	same as VP	same as VP	same as VP	same as VP
Visible Waypoint Number:	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
In Waypoint list:	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
Symbol in Route:	Numbered Flag	Numbered Circle	Numbered Circle	Numbered Circle	Numbered Small Flag
(Turn) Instructions:	Yes	No	No	No	No
Default Name:	No. + Viapoint	No. + Shapingpoint	No. + Shapingpoint	No. + Shapingpoint	No. + Shapingpoint
Nameable, Editable:	Yes	No	?	Yes	Yes
Info Distance:	Yes	No	Yes	Yes	Yes
Info Time:	Yes	No	Yes	Yes	Yes

I’m not participant at the beta-program. Therefore I’m not able to see if the shaping points now are editable.

Thanks a lot for improving shaping points in the beta with Info to distance and time.

For some users for different reasons it would be a big gain, if the shaping points would be editable in the app too (like in website).

Nice to see it in next released official version .

[devemux86]

@WalterG

if the shaping points would be editable in the app too (like in website).

The need for that still seems unclear, looking at how most popular routers work.
Then what would be the difference between via and shaping points?
And why not using via points with names instead?

@WalterG

I’m not participant at the beta-program.

Everyone can, if really want to actively participate in the progress of the application.
It will be too late for changes, if wait each time for the release of production version.

@WalterG

To avoid misunderstandings: Not all is implemented in 1.13.13 and 1.13.14.

Implemented are all the designed features.

[WalterG]

@devemux86

The need for that still seems unclear

@devemux86

Then what would be the difference between via and shaping points?

The difference would be:

• No turn instructions at shaping points
• The not so dominant symbol in the route

@devemux86

And why not using via points with names instead?

To use the advantages of the shaping points, which are written above at the differences.

At planning a route it’s an advantage, if you can see e.g. the name of a route segment like “Trollstigen” in Norway, or “RDGA” (Route des Grandes Alpes) in France.
You see your “Goals” for the route, but you don’t need any instructions when navigating the route.

@devemux86

Everyone can, if really want to actively participate in the progress of the application.
It will be too late for changes, if wait each time for the release of production version.

That I know. And I full agree with you. But since months I’m engaged with the docu. For this and my job currently I don’t want to work additionally with the beta.

[devemux86]

Sorry, still cannot see any advantage for us to be different from what all others do.
(especially the 2nd point is not even a serious reason of why shaping points exist)

Please create a new topic so that community can discuss the specific suggestion.