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Website: Conditional restrictions

Some roads which are quite popular for motorcyclists like the Kesselbergstraße are restricted for motorcycles on certain weekdays. It would be great if Kurviger would consider these restrictions when planning a tour.
The user would have to enter his start date and time, of course.

Do you plan to support the conditional restrictions?

I think in the old forum Robin commented somewhere that this is possible and being though about, but veeeeery very very tricky to do, and I can totally understand that, think how much code would have to be changed for this: the UI, the routing algorithm the connection to OSM… And furthermore it would be one more place where kurviger is reliant on OSM data quality (so one more chance for uneducated 1 star reviews in the play store)…

However I do agree with you that I would SUPER COOL and useful :slight_smile:

Hi,

yes this feature is pretty high in the todo list and I totally understand that this is very important. It is a very complicated feature though and I think that we can only provide a simple implementation that can help to avoid these roads, but won’t be especially sophisticated.

For example: A very advanced feature of something like this could be that if you start riding on sunday night and the shortest route would be over a road that does not allow traffic on sundays. Now the best route could be to wait for half an hour until the road is accessible again and start then. But this is extremely complicated to model.

So realistically we can only provide a very simple version for now, but this is something that could be available in the foreseeable future.

Cheers,
Robin

Well you already do have a simplistic version, don’t you? OSM Gates are completely blocked, kurviger does not drive through them

I understand. Maybe it would be possible to simply highlight any road on the tour which has a “motorcycle:forward:conditional” (or “backward”, depending on the route direction) or “motorcycle:conditional” parameter with a value starting with “no” and to show a warning (“The route uses roads with conditional restrictions…”) - something like this.

Yes, but this is a yes/no decision and not a maybe decision. Maybe is something completely different :).

Yes, something like this is planned as well :slight_smile:.

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I would like to politely request a new feature

Platform:Website

Summary:
I think someone already asked for motorbike restricted roads ( at weekends mostly) to be added and you are thinking about it.
Good.

What I find even more annoying ( not from you!) is that I plan a tour or days round trip and follow it on my Navi.
Recently in the Pfalzer Wald I experienced 6 ( yes, SIX) diversions on the planned route.
Road works/blocks.
Now I know at least there is usually a U1 or U32 to follow but it’s still time consuming and annoying.
These road works are always announced officially by the local authorities or towns or States , whoever is responsible.
Is it possible to get hold of these announcements regularly and build them into the web site planner to avoid the diversions?

Thanks
and best regards
John

Hi John,

thanks for the question. For now I moved your feature request to this topic that is essentially about the same thing.

Kurviger uses OSM data to calculate routes. Long running construction work is usually not a problem, these are properly tagged. Short-term construction work is an issue though (< 3 months). In OSM these have to be “tagged” as conditional restrictions. However, this is often not done in OSM, because many routing engines don’t properly support conditional restrictions (as mentioned above, this is really complicated) and also because this requires regular improvements of the data.

So if you happen to come across an untagged construction side, you could tag in OSM. Once Kurviger supports the OSM tags properly, the routing should work as expected. I don’t expect this feature to take forever to build, but cannot promise anything of course ;).

In OSM, you would tag a road that is close from June to August 2018 like this access:conditional=no@(2018 Jun-2018 Aug). Other examples can be found here. By tagging this you are not only helping Kurviger but a community of millions of people that use OSM.

More information about this can be found here as well.

Thanks,
Robin

Viele Nutzer planen im Winter ihre Sommertouren. Da kann es passieren, dass man im Januar eine Sommertour über einen Alpenpass plant, dieser aber zur Planungszeit auf Grund der Witterung gesperrt ist. Routet Kurvier dennoch über diesen Pass oder muss man die Planung im Frühjahr noch mal anpassen?

Gruß Berthold

Siehe auch suggestion-consider-conditional-restrictions

2 Likes

We are about to launch a new feature to consider conditional restrictions. Working with conditional restrictions is extremely complicated. Therefore, we had to cut some corners to provide you with a way to consider conditional restrictions at all.

The current feature can be used like our avoidances, so you can enable/disable it. This still allows you to plan your summer rides during winter. You can enable to avoid seasonally closed roads. Kurviger will then avoid roads that are currently closed and might be closed over the next couple of days. This means if there is a weekend closure, it will be avoided during the week as well. There is no option to select a day or date. This is a technical limitation and cannot be easily changed. At some point we might be able to further improve this, but not in the near future.

Conditional restrictions in OSM are unfortunately a bit chaotic and not always entered. Kurviger should recognize most restrictions in OSM. If you find a case where you know the road should be currently closed, but Kurviger is not avoiding it properly, it might be that the conditional restriction is not tagged, please first check if it’s entered properly in OSM. You can have a look at the OSM Wiki on how to do that. Otherwise please let us know.

This feature is still in early BETA.

The feature is not yet visible, but you can use it with this link, showing you how the Kesselbergstraße is avoided. You can change the waypoints to check other roads in your area as well. We are planning to release this feature as experimental BETA feature over the next weeks.

There are two use cases where this feature will be especially helpful.

  • Avoid motorcycle restrictions on the weekend
  • Avoid road constructions (please note that these are often not tagged, so we will have to work together and tag them if we find them :slight_smile:)

Please let us know what you think about this feature and how your first tests went.

3 Likes

sounds useful

I like this idea - quite useful! :+1:t2:

Finde die Option auch gut.

Gruß Oliver

Thanks for your replies :slight_smile:. Is it working as expected or have you found any issues?

We are still not 100% set on a name, so if you have an idea for a short name, please let us know :slight_smile:.

Are motorcycle restrictions (as opposed to general retrictions) tagged/accepted better in OSM than motorcycle-specific tolls?
Are you planning to add a car/motorcycle switch like I suggested over in the other thread?

Also: Will you add a datepicker at some point so that we can plan a route for a specific date?

Yes, they are mostly tagged. Especially the major ones. The last time I checked they seem to be pretty similar to http://www.mintelonline.de/Streckensperrungen/

If you find something that is not supported, please report it :slight_smile:.

See my statement above :slight_smile:

There are no short-term plans, but maybe at some point if there is a serious need for it.

Hi Robin,

I’m think you are aware that the forward/backward namespace is not being considered (yet?), right?
Therefore the road is being avoided even though you were allowed to use it. For example, the Kesselbergstraße is only restricted uphill, from Kochelsee to Walchensee but not in the other direction.
Nevertheless:

I have also tested the “Mickhauser Berg”

When I have tested it on Saturday, the restriction has worked. Today it doesn’t:

To be honest, I am not very happy about the current implementation. I don’t understand how the algorithm “might be closed over the next couple of days” works. (I am planning some of my trips not a couple of days before but during the winter.)
Maybe it is the reason why the Mickhauser Berg has been excluded from the route on Saturday but has been included today. It is not clear to me.

I have understood that route planning with a start date and time is too complicated.
So I try to find another solution: When the route includes a road which has conditional access restrictions then I need the information which part of the road it is and when the access is restricted. Then I can decide either to use the road (because I will use it outside of the forbidden time frame) or to manually change the route in order to avoid it.

Something like this would be fine for me:
(The white box is supposed to be a popup which is being shown after clicking on the “road sign”.)

Vorschlag

Of course, the red marking should only be visible if the route direction is the same as the direction of the access restriction. (In this case the restriction is only valid for the direction from Münster to Birkach.)

This is only my opinion of course. What do you think about it?

Best regards,
Spoony

4 Likes

Wenn ich das richtig verstehe sollte eine Routenplanung immer möglich sein, auch über zeitweise gesperrte Strecken.
Die gesperrten Strecken jedoch farblich markiert sein mit eineinem Infopopup.
Finde die Idee richtig gut.

Gruß Oliver

Thanks for the input. You immediately found 2 of the things that don’t work :slight_smile:. There are actually not that many that are not recognised ;).

Yes, the Kesselbergstraße is one of the very few roads that do have a oneway conditional restriction. We can either completely block it or not at all. So I decided it’s better to block it in both directions.

Are you sure that this worked on Saturday? This road uses a tagging scheme that is not yet supported. I doubt that this ever worked to be honest :).

The function is intended for trips that happen in the next week. So the intention was for navigation, not pre-planning of trips.

We are also thinking about different options, like overlays. Let’s see what actually can be done :slight_smile:

1 Like