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Offline routing

idea
routing
#10

Some technical notes:

  • Offline maps have nothing to do with offline routing.

  • Offline maps use our Mapsforge Binary Map File Format and are designed for offline map rendering.

  • Offline routing could be handled via offline routing GraphHopper graphs.

Currently routing in Kurviger is performed online via its own server (powered by GraphHopper online implementation).

But if want to test offline (fastest) routing can try Cruiser platform.
Create offline routing graphs in desktop Cruiser with data from Geofabrik, load the graph and route offline.

Perhaps a preview for the future… :slightly_smiling_face:

Nur Online Berechnung
#11

Just tested it (created a graph for my homebase and working office area and opened it in the Cruiser app). Offline routing works perfect on my old Moto G (3rd Gen). :+1:

Would be a great thing to see that (based on the GraphHopper graphs) in the Kurviger app (even if it would be necessary to create my own graphs using a desktop app like Cruiser for the beginning).

Concerning Cruiser I have a question: what purpose is this app meant for? Why do you offer two different apps with some significant differences?

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#12

Note that Cruiser currently provides the regular fastest & shortest routing with available vehicles car, foot, bike, motorcycle, etc.
It does not contain any Kurviger algorithms.

Regarding Cruiser platform, I created it some time ago to support Mapsforge and VTM vector map libraries and their community.

There are 2 different apps for each vector map engine separately.
Kurviger is based on newer Cruiser GL using internally OpenGL.

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#13

Forword:

During my last long trip I tested once again my own behaviour of digital navigation.
And again I noticed, that I still combine Kurviger with (a) GMaps and (b) HERE.
Want to discuss both reasons here and in another topic.

In this topic: HERE.

Explanation:

For me any kind of offline navigation is still a crucial question for Kurviger - and obviously for others as well…

See the screenshot below I took on my last trip:

I was in a hurry, but had to leave Kurviger’s route because of a detour in a small town.

So I got a bit desorientated, because

  • no more turn instruction, also after some minutes,
  • but indication of “H” data mobile net, so I thought internet connection would still work,
  • no hint at all why Kurviger did not recalculate route, although Recalculation was activated (see 2nd screenshot). :roll_eyes::weary:

Lost in space … :joy:

As an experienced user I could imagine, that connection to Kurviger’s server was lost.

So I (had to and did( stop,
started HERE in offline mode
and found back to a route to my destination, which I then reached without Kurviger. :grin:

Questions:

a) (Easier) Is it possible to implement a CLEAR and IMMEDIATE hint in all situations where Kurviger is not able to (re-) calculate a route and therefor has to stop navigation?

b) (More complicated, I guess) Is there ANY chance to make it possible to implement any comparable feature to Kurviger, to create a route in offline situation?

Because in those situations first aim it “to find out” of the “desert” (before following a nice, scenic and curvy route) it would be completely sufficient to realize that only for the “Fastest” option.

I KNOW, usually it is much easier to prpose then to program: But, if HERE is able to do that, could not Kurviger a similar alogorithm jaut for these “emergency cases of lost in space”?

#14

Always far easier to say than do… Anyone knows the power behind HERE app or other major offline navigators? Hint: behind Kurviger app there is just 1 person. :wink:

For the record, Cruiser platform (where Kurviger is based) is perfectly capable to do offline routing (process explained above).

Seems GraphHopper (used by Kurviger) has its limits in offline large scale routing, so would need to check also other solutions, like BRouter discussed here.

#15
  1. Please don’t mix navigation with routing
    See your own docu :wink: - Kurviger app can do offline navigation!

  2. In your screenshot I miss the “warning triangle” which should AFAIK appear if you are off route.
    So we are talking about an issue, not about missing offline routing.

  3. From my perspective it would be sufficient to have only one routing profile for a limited distance available in offline mode. Just enough to get you back to the route. No need for a full featured “curvy algorithm”.
    And yes easy to say hard to do.

Coming back to your screenshot.

Looks like a similar issue I have posted in the other thread
Have you tried to:
a) stop start navigation?
b) stop start Kurviger app?

Manfred

#16

Agree, but having a recalculated route is condition for an continued navigation, what exactly I did not have in this case. So indeed NAVIGATION was stopped.

Hmmm, that’s true - could be the case.
(But effect on the road is the same …)

Ecaxtly, that’s my suggestion - an “emergency offline fast route out of the nirvana”.

I am aware of this parallel topic - but HERE in my focus was (and is still) indeed the “emergency offline fast route out of the nirvana”.

a) Yes - did not help.
b) No, not in THIS case - was in a hurry, impatient car drivers following me and I could not stop to operate the device without traffic risk.

#17

Please everyone let’s keep discussion here strictly for offline routing.

Any other app cases should be better discussed in their own topics. :slightly_smiling_face:

2 Likes
#18

How true. And you absolutely deserve RESPECT for that fact! :+1:

3 Likes
#19

And we all (I hope) KNOW THAT!!!

2 Likes
#20

for offline routing term, I understand your technical point of view. But on the "road’ as explained, all work done preparing a routing vanishes at the first pb. Unexpected road work, river out of bed, stones, accidents, etc… hundred of cases that sadly I had to stand even in Hungary, which is not the road of bones… If this function can’t be implemented, sorry to say that we can just make any twisty routing on a pc online and import gpx (directly or converted) in osmand, maps me magic earth, navigator, galileo, Locus, etc… Life is not a printed picture when on the way… I’m glad to have bought the pro version, even if this cheap amount will not help you pay taxes… But I don’t use no more Kurviger on smartphones and it makes me sad , because it could be just THE software ! I understand that a one person joib is nearly impossible mission, and more if all the software dvpmt and routines came in one direction which doesn’t allow a light offline routing algorythm inside smartphones. But I’m french so time to time, I come back asking hahahahaha “L’espoir meurt en dernier”

#21

So sehr ich mir auch ein Offline-Routing wünsche, verstehe ich nicht wie man komplett ohne nicht klar kommt mit der App.
Auch mir ist es schon öfters passiert das es eine Umleitung oder ähnliches gab, dann habe ich kurz an der Seite angehalten und mir selbst auf der Karte einen Weg gesucht…

Übersetzt mit DeepL:
As much as I would like to have an offline routing, I don’t understand how to completely get along with the app without it.
Also it happened to me already often that there was a detour or something similar, then I stopped briefly at the side and looked for myself on the map a way…

#22

Actually no need to convince me about any advantages of an offline solution.

After all I am the developer of Mapsforge + VTM offline vector map libraries!

Strange is how many prefer online maps in Kurviger, instead of offline ones… :confused:

3 Likes
#23

Ich würde das Offline Routing auch sehr gut finden.
Da wir bei uns wo ich wohne so ein schlechtes Netz haben, kann ich von Zuhause außerhalb des W-Lan Empfang nicht mal eine Route berechnen lassen.
Auch wenn ich unterwegs bin ist mir das leider schon öffters vorgekommen. Z.B. auch in großen Teilen vom Schwarzwald gibt es kein Netz. Auch haben manche Unterkünfte kein W-Lan, so dass es unmöglich ist eine Route berechnen zu lassen. Leider haben wir in D einen schlechten Netzausbau und dazu kommen noch die ganzen Baustellen und Umleitungen. Auch im EU Ausland ist es mir schon oft vorgekommen.
Das soll allerdings nicht die super Arbeit und Leistung vom Kurviger Team schmälern. Ihr macht einen klasse Job :ok_hand::+1:
Dennoch wäre ein Offlinerouting für mich auch sehr wichtig. Das ist der einzige Grund warum ich noch Alternativapps nutze.

Gruß Oliver

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#24

not the same population. Offline is for travellers and more offroad or far countries . Offline is a necessity, as long as you travel out of weekend sor sunny european trips… And there’s still a market for it…Not big but we are a lot to be able to pay a good price for it ! ( not a licence, for same reasons). I’m using graphHooper to make around trip by Russia Georgia, Armenia, Turkey etc… Works well ( and the now 80 points lakes it easier), but lots of single trails can’t be defined, even if they are seen on the OSM … Still dreaming of a simple app where you just draw your routing on the map screen and it converts in GPX. So it’s up to you to go through a forest, cross a small river, then take a highway, etc… It will allow to be in/out of topo maps and general ones. Loading and working on small topo areas is not realistic… Because on the way, I will have changes, discover some places,etc…( same reason why online routing is not a “'real world” way) and how use topo areas for a 12000 km trip ? :wink:

#25

Seems pretty logic that people prefer online in kurviger, if I understand it… Offline just doesn’t work; sorry. Detour, roadworks, turns mistakes, all things happen, and even faster on bikes… If you don’t go back or join the already online planned itienrary, you 're f…d That’s exactly how I test and value gps prgs : Make a mistake , turn around and see how the prg catches up ! Some great prgds can act like shit in this case !! Especially , because of fast turns and direction changes of bikes :slight_smile: And don’t forget that 3g /4g is not free, and can be a big pb in lots fo countries when you are not living there and just have access to expensive solutions. If you get a sim card you try not to use it for routing , to preserve the expensive data use … g/4g is still crazy costly in Hungary where I live now , and if i go in turkey, I won’t be allowed to buy / use a TK sim card for more than 12 days ! Not enough to explore country…

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#26

Yes, I think we all agree that offline routing would be a nice addition to Kurviger :slight_smile:, and this is something we would all like to see in the future for Kurviger :+1:.

I stayed for quite a long time in countries with almost no internet coverage, where driving for 500 km without reception happens regularly, and traveled there with Kurviger. I can fully agree, that it would have been handy at times.

On the other hand offline routing has several serious issues and downsides, that need to be handled accordingly. It’s not a straight forward as one might think.

3 Likes
#27

Free roaming man :smiley: don’t caaaaare anymore

Stick to the Alpes, man the Swiss have got it figured out so hard

#28

The available solution is described above (can test it) via offline routing graphs.

With its advantages (offline) and disadvantages (fastest routing, country graphs).
That’s the only possible implementation that can be integrated as-is relatively fast.

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Skip waypoint and recalculate Route Bug
#29

Did you ever drive through Rheinland-Pfalz? You can be lucky to find a drum to call up somebody… offline maps are very important, but offline routing is not that important… the app works very well already as it is…

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