Make road Categories selectable

[devemux86]

Roads can be oneways or large streets with lanes and different directions.
When place waypoints on map, they use the closest road edge on routing.

Routing algorithms cannot guess how humans perceive the environment.
Need to define sufficiently the road side and where waypoints are placed.

[Patrick]

@lve0200

Starting Points (I guess End Points as well) are put on lanes, not on roads.

And all others as well All waypoints are trying to put the route where the tip of the marker is. It’s just that only the most major of major roads even have separate lanes. So in absolutely most cases you’ll be fine with putting the marker roughly where you want to go

@lve0200

impossible to make Kurviger route over N632 rather than A8 and what could solve the problem, rather than having to put 20++ waypoints.

hm I guess maybe in this case it’s quite tricky to get Kurviger there because it thinks that the N632 is also a “bigger” road and not one to heavily prefer? I think setting the route profile to “curvy” helps already a little bit
Kurviger

But yeah, I mean it’s always true that… if you know best where to go, where the road is nicest, you’ll probably have to wrangle the computer a little bit to do what you want. I guess in this case you’ll need a couple waypoints to get this going

[lve0200]

Hi Patrick,
so 'I dived into the guts of OSM and I found out that the A8 is tagged as Highway:Motorway and the N632 is tagged as Highway:Trunk. It was my initial guess, that both would be treated as Highways and therefore I choose the title of making the road types selectable as they are in OSM. I don’t know, how Grashopper selects the roads regarding only the first, or the complete tag. I would like to propose that the selectable road type “Schnellstraße” should be split into “Autobahn” and “Schnellstraße”. Many of us want to avoid real Highways, but eventually there are segments of a multi lane and crossing free major national roads (in Germany e.g. all single digit Bundesstraße (B3, B9 etc) which you can hardly avoid. Currently they are apparently all in the same category and if you switch “Schnellstraße” off, you end up on these very little roads.
RGDS
hk

[boldtrn]

Thanks for providing additional information regarding your issue. I can have a look if we can improve these cases when calculating a route.

[boldtrn]

I am happy to let you know that we improved our routing algorithm. The reported case from @lve0200 should work a lot better now. The “avoid motorway” option works correctly for this case now. Thanks for reporting this! Please let us know if you find anything worsened due to that change.

[lve0200]

WOW!!, I am impressed!!
Yes, something is better now, but there are still issues.
Look at this now,
https://kurv.gr/jJWkf

All of a sudden, the algo leaves N634 and turns into 621a for a long deviation. I checked in OSM N634, but there is no change in road type, still motorway:trunk, as before.
Very strange effects take place, if I add one additional intermediate waypoint
https://kurv.gr/3Idtl
and If I move it a few 100m
https://kurv.gr/HDB8i
The initially desired result becomes available using a 2nd intermediate waypoint.
https://kurv.gr/IyxgY
BTW, I am not complaining, Kurviger is still my absolute favorite, but I just wonder, what’s happening in the routing algo. Why does the algo create long deviations in mode “direct”, if the the direct way is just hanging on to N634??
Did you check my initial idea, if selecting the HWY symbol for fastest routing and DE-selecting Motorways is no contradiction in the logic? I had the impression that de-selecting motorways could force the routing back into curves.
Rgds
hk

[Henrry]

Geht mir genauso. Man muss die Strecke die man fahren will, durch unendlich viele Punkte fixieren. Das ist sehr nervig. Hier muss etwas von Seiten ‘kurviger.de’ passieren. Unbedingt. Ansonsten bin ich mit der Software sehr zufrieden.

[lve0200]

Hi Henry,
nachdem ich diesen Thread gestartet habe, möchte ich aber auch etwas zur Verteidigung der Entwickler sagen! Routing ist ein zickiges Biest und Nomen est Omen. Wenn schon im Namen “kurviger” steht, dann eben kurvig! Insofern ist den Entwicklern schon ein kleines Wunder gelungen, was bisher noch kein mir bekanntes Programm geschafft hat. Routing auf dem PC und auf dem Handy sind absolut identisch und die gefundenen Strecken sind im allg. für Motorradfahrer auch recht annehmbar. Der Rest ist der Versuch, die eierlegende Wollmilchsau zu erschaffen. Kein automatischer (KI) Algorithmus kann für jeden einzelnen DIE Route schaffen, die ER gerne hätte. Es ging mir in meinem Beitrag darum, zu erkennen, warum es manchmal krasse Ausreißer gibt. Ich denke, daß die letzte Änderung des Algo schon viel bringen wird, abgesehen von Datenfehler im OSM Material. Keine Software ist fehlerfrei und es gibt immer etwas zu verbessern. In diesem Sinne, “weiter so!”

But after I started this thread, I also want to say something in defense of the developers! Routing is a bitchy beast and nomen est omen. If the name is “curvy” , then just expect curvy! In this respect, the developers have already managed a small miracle, which has not yet managed any other program I know. Routing on the PC and on the phone are absolutely identical and the tracks found are generally quite acceptable for motorcyclists. The rest is an attempt to create the egg-laying Wollmilchsau. No automatic (AI) algorithm can accomplish the route that someone particular would like . In my post I wanted to know why there are sometimes some very strange outliers. I think that the last change of the Algo will bring a lot, apart from data errors in the OSM material. No software is error free and there is always something to improve. In this sense, “keep it up!”
Hans

[mbirth]

Wenn Du eine so genaue Vorstellung von der Route hast, die Du fahren möchtest, ist Kurviger wohl nicht das richtige Produkt für Dich. Dann solltest Du eher auf herkömmliche Routingprogramme oder sowas wie Garmin Basecamp zurückgreifen, wo man die Route komplett mit der Hand malen kann/muss.

[linux-user]

@Henrry

Man muss die Strecke die man fahren will, durch unendlich viele Punkte fixieren.

Kannst Du hierfür ein Beispiel zeigen als Kurviger Link?
Dass man mehr als eine Handvoll Wegepunkte / 100km braucht glaube ich erst wenn Du es mir zeigst.

Manfred

[boldtrn]

@lve0200

All of a sudden, the algo leaves N634 and turns into 621a for a long deviation. I checked in OSM N634, but there is no change in road type, still motorway:trunk, as before.

The change was purely a change of the algorithm. No data was changed.

@lve0200

Why does the algo create long deviations in mode “direct”, if the the direct way is just hanging on to N634??

Please note, you are also using some avoidances, which change how the algorithm might work. There are some minor road data issues on the N634, I think most of them should be resolved soon.

I also found a couple of algorithm improvements, which should be available in a couple of days.

In general we are working on providing an improved version of the fastest route option.

I am not sure about allowing or forbidding certain road categories to be honest, but sure this might be something that we could add in the future .

[Patrick]

@boldtrn

I am not sure about allowing or forbidding certain road categories to be honest, but sure this might be something that we could add in the future

Translation: never. gonna. happen
Which is ok I think, we don’t need each and every single option cluttering the UI to be honest…

[boldtrn]

@Patrick

Translation: never. gonna. happen

No

I think that something like this could be interesting and could be added at some point.

[lve0200]

Hi,
something has happened w/ my Forum, because I miss a lot of recent postings. Looks as I felt back a few weeks.
I remember, that some changes to direct routing were announced at some time.
Is there any progress?
look at this; you may use it as a test case.
https://kurv.gr/sxZCJ
RGDS
hk

[boldtrn]

@lve0200

look at this; you may use it as a test case.

Thanks for providing this very helpful test case. There was actually an edge case. This should be fixed in the next days.

[boldtrn]

Your sample route should be fixed now. Please let us know if anything else looks suspicious.

[lve0200]

@boldtrn

There was actually an edge case

Sorry, I’m not so deep in the subject. What does this mean? Was it a chart data issue, or did you change something in the algo?
RGDS
hk

[boldtrn]

@lve0200

Was it a chart data issue, or did you change something in the algo?

I changed something in the algorithm. There was a misinterpretation of a special set of attributes that happened at this point and very few other locations. The issue should be resolved now .

[lve0200]

Sorry, but this is apparently a tough nut to crack. We’re still not there, yet!
If I choose from Bilbao to Santander w/ Highways OFF, I get this:
https://kurv.gr/j17Jv
Obviously, it does not take the N634, which goes in parallel to the Highway A8, but it takes me via a 2nd/3rd order roads.
If I try to set waypoints on the National Road N634 , which would be the route of choice from Bilbao to Santander, avoiding the Highway A8. Here the route goes over the parking lot of Petronor !!
https://kurv.gr/BUq2x

RGDS
hk

[boldtrn]

Thanks for the update, yes there seem to be a couple more issues. I will have a look how this can be solved.