Sorry, Iâm not so deep in the subject. What does this mean? Was it a chart data issue, or did you change something in the algo?
RGDS
hk
I changed something in the algorithm. There was a misinterpretation of a special set of attributes that happened at this point and very few other locations. The issue should be resolved now 
.
Sorry, but this is apparently a tough nut to crack. Weâre still not there, yet!
If I choose from Bilbao to Santander w/ Highways OFF, I get this:
https://kurv.gr/j17Jv
Obviously, it does not take the N634, which goes in parallel to the Highway A8, but it takes me via a 2nd/3rd order roads.
If I try to set waypoints on the National Road N634 , which would be the route of choice from Bilbao to Santander, avoiding the Highway A8. Here the route goes over the parking lot of Petronor !!
https://kurv.gr/BUq2x
RGDS
hk
Thanks for the update, yes there seem to be a couple more issues. I will have a look how this can be solved.
Hi,
may be its a question of language, but I donât really understand your policies. In English you say âavoid motorwaysâ which I would translate into âvermeide Autobahnâ in German or âĂ©vitez Autorouteâ in French.
It was my original idea (in the title) to change âvermeide Schnellstrasseâ in âvermeide Autobahnâ (tag Motorway/Autobahn/Autoroute/Autostrada), which would leave routing over national roads (with fast lanes) untouched.
However there seems 2b a hesitation to make it that clear in all languages/countries ??
I donât really understand, what categories you exclude with âSchnellstraĂeâ on a per counry basis. I have the distinct impression, that everything is âquite Germanâ oriented. OK, I am German, and I believe you are too. May be we could discuss this on a personal level in our both mother tongue directlyâŠ? Feel free to contact me, because I believe the the community has very little advantage from reading these posts.
Mind you of my post #23
RGDS
hk
Translating these things is not always straight forward. The feature is supposed to not only avoid motorways, but also for example âKraftfahrtstraĂeâ and similar roads. The concept of a KraftfahrtsstraĂe, AFAIK, doesnât really exist in England and Australia; in the US motorways are called Freeways, so I am not aware of a good word for it.
Thatâs where the problems start, itâs not always clear what is supposed to be a motorway like road. I think our current approach still has too many possible edge cases and I will think about a completely new approach over the winter.
Hi,
but this was exactly! what I wanted to remedy. My idea, may be I have to elaborate a bitâŠ
OSM has a predefined and limited set of road categories; I guess they are in English, but from a software point of view, its an enumerated list of types. These should be selectable, as I said in the title. Why combining some eg. Autobahn and Kraftfahrtstr.? Why giving them other names as categories highway:motorway or highway:trunk?
If I was to change the approach, I would:
- make 1 tick box ((de-)select) per OSM road category; the OSM category should really being the master reference
- not combine them. I think the effect weâre seeing comes from there. Highway:motorway is always a clear thing, but combining it w/ highway:trunk will lead to the following effect: whenever a BundesstraĂe or National road will be enlarged into 3 or 4 lanes, this segment will be tagged as highway:trunk and subsequently treated in the same way as highway:motorway and the user will be routed away from it. In this case a long BundesstraĂe or National road will be chopped into pieces which are highway:trunk and highway:primary and all segments tagged as highway:trunk will be avoided in combination w/ highway:motorway.
- translate each of these OSM categories in the âofficialâ name per country in a 1:1 relationship. I guess that each country has its definition of road types for the sake of driver license restrictions.
- Let the user decide, which road to use or not. If some road type doesnât exist in some country, there should be no such roads with this tag in the country and if the box is ticked or not should not have any effect. You could still give it a name in the corresponding translation.
Hope its clearer now.
BTW,
if Iâm not mistaken, Freeways means âNo Tollâ, but it remains a highway:motorway, but this should already be covered in another tick box (avoid toll roads).
RGDS
hk
Yes, I already commented on that as well 
. But that is a different feature and probably we should discuss this in the new feature category. This category is more about issues in the routing .
Yep,
may be Iâm not getting it, but you do this already!?? What else is deselecting
SchnellstraĂe, Hauptstr, smallest roads, etc?
The only modification I had in mind, was to separate highways from SchnellstraĂe and make them deselectable and making sure that they correspond to OSM cats.
Iâm a bit lost w/ your answer.
May be I should say: exclude them from routing ?! Actually I never said âforbidâ! I always said "makeâem (de-)selectable (i.e. considered for routing, or not)
RGDS
hk
Robin,
sorry if I annoy you,
talking about the German User Interface:
SchnellstraĂe und Hauptstr. are not terms according to the German StVo. I propose
Split SchnellstraĂe into Autobahn and KraftfahrstraĂe and make them separately selectable. Map Autobahn to OSM highway:motorway and Kraftfahrstr. to OSM highway:trunk
Replace Haupstr. w/ Bundesstr. and map them to OSM highway:primary;
leave the rest as is. For the live of me, I canât see that this would constitute a new feature!
For the French interface, Autobahn would become Autoroute, Kraftfahrstr. => Voie rapide and Bundesstr. => Route National. The mappings to OSM would remain the same.
Sorry to bother
hk
2 Likes
Note that users donât (need to) know OpenStreetMap highway tags, just common terms (in UI) like motorways, main roads, etc.
I never said the users should know/observe this! To the contrary, I proposed âtranslationsâ of these OSM-tags into local authority names, like Autobahn, Autostrada, Autoroute etc., just that you (the makers) should map all these local translations to 1 (and only one) corresponding OSM tag, and
sorrry for always repeating myself, make some of them selectable for routing.
RGDS
hk
Thanks a lot for the discussion. That is in no way annoying. You have a point and I think itâs great that you stand up for it.
Currently, the avoidances donât follow road categories but use a lot of different attributes to determine if a road is for example a main road or a narrow road. We generate a couple of high level descriptions, like narrow road and users can decide if they want to use a narrow road or not.
In the case of âSchnellstraĂeâ our current approach seems to have too many edge cases and we should use a different approach. I have something in mind already, but it will take some time to implement it.
Regarding the translation:
The naming of roads is very different from country to country. For example we might choose the wording according to the German StVO, then this would not work in Switzerland because these roads have different names again. Therefore, we chose mostly generic terms that donât correspond to certain country rules.
For example consider German roads. We do have real motorways (Autobahn) and we do have motorway like roads, like many BundesstraĂen, but not all BundesstraĂen, some of them are quite nice. So simply avoiding road categories is not a good approach in my opinion. Then there are many other countries with other road types other tagging, etc.
Setting up avoidances by road category would be a different feature and should be independent from the current approach, probably with a different UI, etc. - this would require OSM knowledge and stricly follow OSM notation and ignore local authority names. As noted above this is related not only to different names in different countries with a similar language, but also in OSM for one country, there is often no fixed 1:1 mapping of road type to highway tag.
1 Like
Ah, OK, understand now!
Here, I donât understand, because DevMux sent me another link which basically confirms that the tagging is OSM wide the same, independent from countries. I therefore do not really understand, what you want to say. There may be gradual differences, if a road is tagged trunk, or primary, but in principle it will always be an OSM tag and be a large road. I think that your argument turns even against you, if you aggregate OSM tags into your own categories, when they are used differently in different countries. That could actually be the reason, that your routing behaves differently in different countries and that I discover these problems in Spain and not in Germany.
For the translation, w/out being arrogant, I believe that the Swiss could happily live w/ German road cats, as Luxemburg and South Belgium could survive with FrenchâŠ
OK, I leave you in peace now and wait what youâre cooking. I think, I made myself sufficiently 
clear.
RGDS
hk
1 Like
Please note, thatâs how it should be in theory. In reality, itâs a different story and there are differences, not just from country to country but also from region to region.
Yes, as I said, our current approach is not ideal. I will work on an improved version
Hi Robin,
would you ose, giving an outlook, when an improved/modified version of the routing could become available (for beta?)
BTW. All the best for 2020 and a year full of good rides and health!
hans
Unfortunately, I cannot provide you with an ETA for that yet. I am hoping to get this done before the next season starts.
Thanks, all the best for 2020 as well .
Hi,
anything to report here ?
Yes - You canât see it yet, but things are moving in the right direction here. I canât give you an ETA, but we are a lot closer than we were a few months ago.
The issue here is that I first had to fix a few blocking issues, they are halfway fixed now.
The routes reported here have been improved quite a bit due to the change here: Vermeide SchnellstraĂen: BundesstraĂen und Autobahn - #18 by boldtrn