Kurviger routes over private roads

[EN] I think I have found an issue with the route calculated by Kurviger

Kurviger routes over roads which are tagged as motor_vehicle=private in OSM, i.e. you need the owners permission to traverse them.
[EN] I read the corresponding documentation

[EN] Here is a url to a short example (<10km) that shows the issue:

[EN] Description of the issue and how it should work instead:

Kurviger has no way knowing if any particular user has the owners permission utilize a private road or not. If it would refuse to route over such roads by default, things could get really frustrating e.g. if you live along such a road or are indeed the owner.

May I suggest an added option in Kurviger, consider private roads, which default to true for backwards compatibility?

Hmm interesting, there’s motor_vehicle=private as well as access=destination? Kinda makes sense when you think about it.

We’ve discussed the former here already: https://forum.kurviger.de/t/strassen-mit-access-destination-werden-komplett-ignoriert/

Probably it’s similar with the latter? Only Robin (the inventor) can speak to the algorithm itself, but I kind of agree with you that “private” is private and shouldn’t be routed at all

P. S. There’s also access=private? What’s the difference?

It’s similar, but not quite the same. The previous case had other issues in OSM, whereas in my example, it’s just motor_vehicle=private.

I don’t know what access=private is, but my guess is, it applies equally to pedestrians, bicycles, motor_vehicle, and horses. If that is correct, then it would not be applicable to my example.

access=destination means that you are allowed to use the road if you have business there, like living there, visiting someone, go to a store there, etc.

access=private is an actually private road. Usually these are driveways to houses, factories, etc. You are only allowed on this road with permission of the owner.

@Snarkdragon, the road was changed 11 hours ago. Currently, data changes need up to 3 days until they show up on Kurviger.

The latest tagging looks a bit weird to me. I don’t know the local rules, but to me it seems like the easiest would be to either use motor_vehicle=private or motor_vehicle=destination. Having tags like access=no but foot=yes can be difficult for some routing software to properly interpret, some will block foot access, others will allow it, if these situations can be avoided, that would make it easier :slight_smile:.

Regarding the tag horse=uknown, I don’t know the local rules, but usually if there is no sign, it is either permitted or forbidden depending on the local rules? If you can’t verify the information locally, then it should not be added to OSM :slight_smile:. If you are interested to why, see the OSM Wiki here :slight_smile:.

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So, there’s a possible contradiction between all=no and bicycle yes. Unfortunately, I don’t know how to remove the all tag. Would all=yes be a safe choice given the value for motor_vehicle?

motor_vehicle=private I am sure of, there’s a sign saying exactly that.

As for horse=uknown, IANL, so I really don’t know. I could change it back to yes, as it was before.

The up to three days thing is a surprise - my first edit in OSM was changing a ferry incorrectly tagged as taking motor vehicles. That kicked in within seconds, maybe i just got lucky the first time?

At least for Kurviger, no. If you are really really lucky, you get the changes through in <24 hours.

There is this little bin next to the tag, click it and it’s gone.

Screenshot from 2020-10-06 17-49-54

Please ignore this area:

Screenshot from 2020-10-06 17-50-50

This is what the editor thinks might be the result of the tags. There is no all tag :slight_smile:.

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Yesh no I got that, my question was what’s the difference between motor_vehicle=private and access=private

Ok, all is gone. Now I’ll just wait for three days to see if my route changes.

Access includes everything, like foot, bike, horse, moonwalking etc. :wink:

You can see the date of the OSM-Database Kurviger is using on the website menu (the 3 lines)

Looking at the OSM wiki the access tag is organized hirarchically.


Very cool, so a road that allows

  • access for all
  • but cars only for the owner

is possible. Very interesting

Thanks, I’ll check that before checking if the route has changed. Do you know a way to check this in the Android app?

Can use the “Show on OpenStreetMap.org” option and check the OpenStreetMap data in their website.
(available in “More…” options when long press on map)

Ok, now the route has changed.

Thanks everybody for your help, I’ve learned a lot.

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