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Additional Waypoints in exported GPX files are not as expected

Either using the App 1.10.5 or the Website, i’m exporting to format “Garmin Shaping Point GPX” and i want to have additional waypoints to become the route (talking not about the track!) in BMW Navigator as exactly as it could be. But the behaviour while exporting with additional waypoints seems to be a bit strange. To follow my next description just download first my Kurviger file:
20191102_1233.kurviger (7.1 KB)

  1. This is the GPX file exported with “0” additional Waypoints:
    20191102_AddWpt_0.gpx (1.9 KB)
    Theres 1 Startpoint, 1 Endpoint and 2 Waypoints named “1” & “2” in it.

  2. This is the GPX file exported with “10” additional Waypoints:
    20191102_AddWpt_10.gpx (2.9 KB)
    As you can see, now it contains 1 Startpoint, 1 Endpoint, the 2 already known Waypoints and 6 new additional waypoints (to my opinion now there should be 10 of those).

  3. This is the GPX file exported with “20” additional Waypoints:
    20191102_AddWpt_20.gpx (3.1 KB)
    As you can see, now it contains again 1 Startpoint, 1 Endpoint, the 2 already known Waypoints and 6 new additional waypoints (to my opinion now there should be 20 of those).

As you can see, the amount of additional waypoints does not really take the desired effect. In both cases there are only 6 add. wpt. instead of 10 or 20. And surprisingly those additional waypoints are different, you can see this by taking a closer look at the files with 10 and 20 add. wpt.

So here are my Questions:

  1. Is there a bug in Kurviger or in my understanding of this feature?
  2. As you can see in the GPX files the tag “CalculationMode” is always set to “FasterTime” but by mode for calculating the route is set to “Extra Curvy”. Changing this to any other option does not take any effect either. Why is that?

Thx for hints and answering in advance
Kai

Hi,

if you want to add further points in adjustable distance and change the Garmin routing mode and do further changes, you can use the converter
https://gpx.shelms.de/GPX/GpxShaping.html

Help:
https://gpx.shelms.de/GPX/GpxShapingHelp.html

Thread about converter:
Converter Kurviger Routes for newer Garmin / BMW Navis (Konverter Kurviger Routen für neuere Garmin Navis)

Ciao Markus

For my opinion than you should talk about the track!
I use kurviger.de for planning and my smartphone with the kurviger app for navigation - therefore I’ve no problems with nonexact routes.
And if my fellows use TomTom or Garmin I suggest them to convert my track (inside the .gpx-File) to their formats - for instance with the RouteConverter. Maybe they have to reduce the number of trackpoint (automaticly done in RouteConverter).
The number of trackpoints in your example is 975 and the .itn-File (for TomTom) contains 97 after conversion. But even with that much waypoints you will not get an exact route at all.
On the other side, if I get a .gpx-File from anyone I take the track (as Overlay) and move or insert waypoints to exactly follow the track and export it in kurviger format for my smartphone.

Can see also the documentation for import GPX tracks.

Sorry to zaphod_42 and devemux86,
but you did not read my posting carefully:

@zaphod_42 I wrote extra that I do not want to work with tracks but with routes and I meant it that way. I do not want opinions and teachings about tracks. I drive about 20000 km per year including the Alps (with Basecamp and Navigator IV) and now I just try to replace Basecamp with Kurviger. Since you do not seem to know it, the Track-to-Route transformation in Navigator IV creates just one start and end point, no breakpoints. That is not useful.

@devemux86 I’ve done a lot of work to document existing problems when EXPORTING to the Garmin GPX format and all I get is a reference to the documentation for IMPORTING GPX files? That’s a pity, I thought here in the forum would be more carefully respond to customer problems.

There are no customers, Kurviger routing is free to use via website or app. :slightly_smiling_face:

Community here tries to help and all keep the discussion in civilized manner.

The Pro App is not free, so i’m a customer!

Very nice, but here the discussion in not for Pro app’s navigation, but for Kurviger’s free export.

Regarding your question can also wait @boldtrn’s answer who knows better the routing / import processes.

Okay - I respect that. Good luck and goodbye.

@rumbrummer Thanks for pointing out, I know this website. I thought we do not need this anymore, since exporting as “Garmin Shaping Points GPX” in Kurviger is possible.

Thanks for the question. Kurviger limits the number of additional waypoints you can generate to keep the number within reasonable amounts. It is important not to generate too many waypoints. Generating too many points will result in points on junctions or points too close to other roads and results in incorrect snapping of roads. Please note, the map data used by your Garmin (BMW Navigator) is different than the OSM data that Kurviger uses, so it can happen that roads have slightly different coordinates, which will lead to incorrect route results. The more points you place along a route, the higher the chance of incorrect snapping.

We do have an algorithm that tries to avoid placing waypoints away from crossings, usually on longer stretches of roads. That usually results in good import results vs. incorrect imports.

BTW: You can choose to enter any number in the additional waypoints. You can enter 5000. Kurviger will reduce that to a reasonable amount. In you case, that’s 16 waypoints, including the 4 you set.

I am happy to discuss potential improvements/changes to the current export mechanism if there is a good use case and enough users looking for it :slight_smile:.

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@boldtrn Thx for joining this discussion. Your right, the Map in BMW Navigator is different to OSM Map from Kurviger. And that is the reason that a want additional Shaping Points. And here we are again: It is useful to have 25 of these Shaping Point for each 100 km. Therefore i tried testing the export with additional 10 or 20 Points. And you wrote, that “Kurviger will reduce that to a reasonable amount” and you counted 16 waypoints. In my test i always become “1 Startpoint, 1 Endpoint, 2 Waypoints and 6 new additional waypoints” which is 10 in sum for me.

So is there or will there be an option to force Kurviger to set the given amount of additional Waypoints to the exported Route (like https://gpx.shelms.de/GPX/GpxShaping.html does)?

In some situations this might be good, in others this might not be ideal. This really depends. For example Kurviger will place very few shaping points in cities, that’s why in your example there are so few waypoints in the beginning.

So is there or will there be an option to force Kurviger to set the given amount of additional Waypoints to the exported Route (like https://gpx.shelms.de/GPX/GpxShaping.html 1 does)?

Currently, there are no plans like that. We had that in the beginning and it lead to many issues. That’s why we developed an algorithm to place these shaping points in a more strategic way and don’t just place them along the geometry of the route.

As I said, I am happy to change this, if there is the need or a good use case, why this would be required and enough users are backing this, but I don’t fully understand your use case. If you’d like to have a 100% perfect match between your Kurviger route and your navi, you need the track. Everything else is only sort of matching your planned route.

BTW: I know some users who prefer to set their own waypoints. That’s very easy on the Kurviger website as well, just left click the route. That way you know 100% that your waypoints are set at the right point. You can for example let Kurviger generate a first set of additional waypoints (export gpx route with many waypoints, import the GPX (set the import to a high number like 200 as well), and add a few manually, if you need them at one or two places. I discourage anyone trying to solve this by mass-adding waypoints, this usually only increases issues :slight_smile:.

If I use the .kurviger File provided above, and select “many” in the gpx export, I do get 11 waypoints. If I choose my own value and for example enter 200, I get 16.

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